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thank you garrett and thank you bill for

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inviting me here

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this is in fact my first attendance

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i i've had some troubles in my field

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i must say but now when i go home and

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tell people i've come to a conference

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like this

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i don't know what i'm going to say next

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yes i i've actually got 40 minutes i

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think to

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to condense from 40 hours of seminar

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which in turn represents more than 40

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years of work

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which represents i think about 4 000

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years worth of observations by others it

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goes back that far

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so we'll see what we can do i can just

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say some provocative things and leave it

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at that

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we can talk about you know explanations

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a little bit later on

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um i the the force that was four

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thousand year reference that i'm making

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is of course

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we are what we eat that goes back at

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least four thousand years to my

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knowledge

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the best i can figure out this is the

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book to which garrett

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uh identified and obviously i can't

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follow the explanations of why i'm going

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to say the things we're going to say so

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i suggest if you're interested

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you can you can get that book this

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started uh quite a

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number of years ago uh when in fact i

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actually took a faculty position

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virginia tech just down the road

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uh in the department of biochemistry and

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i had at that time a responsibility

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to help organize and coordinate a

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program in the philippines

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with state department funding to try to

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help bring under control

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uh malnutrition and children of which of

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course this is a an

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unfortunate consequence and at that time

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without getting into a lot of other

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detail

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uh it was an opportunity for well i went

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there with my senior colleague to

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make sure that these children got enough

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protein i mean that's what we tend to

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think about in western societies

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as far as our own diet is concerned make

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sure we get enough protein you've heard

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the story i'm sure whether you've

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been in the science or not and so this

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is what this study was in part

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about was to try to figure out make sure

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these kids got enough protein

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and that suited my kind of thinking as

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it did my senior colleague

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because that's what we tend to think in

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science and nutrition in particular

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and along the way again without getting

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into all the details

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i got the impression in talking to some

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people and

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considering the question concerning

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cancer formation especially which was my

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special interest at the time was that

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cancer tended to be more common in

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families and even in children

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and families who are consuming the

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levels of protein like we do

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in other words higher levels we we as a

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society tend to consume very high levels

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of protein

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uh here uh there they don't uh but the

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few families who did

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seem to have had children and themselves

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who had higher levels of a certain kind

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of cancer

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with liver cancer particular and so it

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was odd

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we're going there to increase protein

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intake to bring it up to our level

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that's when in fact

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it might have that kind of consequence

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so this study came out

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from india using experimental animals

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showing that in fact animals that given

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regular levels of protein that's 20

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percent of total calories we express it

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compared to animals given lower levels

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and all animals exposed to a very

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potent chemical carcinogen by the way

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that the animals given the

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regular levels of protein which were

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thought by the investigators

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to actually maybe repress and keep under

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control

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the formation of this cancer in fact

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they were the ones that got all the

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cancer as opposed to the ones given

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lower levels of protein which

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got none we did they didn't need a

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statistician to tell them whether or not

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that was significant

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uh because it was quite clear um it was

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also coincided with what in fact i

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said that i thought i saw in the

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children and the families

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are getting more protein getting more

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cancer i mean that's pretty odd

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and so we went on i i took this

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observation of those observations

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and then organize a study with nih

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funding which continued over the next 27

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years as one major grant

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uh so this is this what i'm going to

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tell you now it was funded by the

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national institutes of health

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uh and in fact was published in in the

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best journals that we

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we have in our field so i'm just going

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to just mention some things because

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with that start that focus on a rather

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narrow question

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actually has now expanded for me at

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least into

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a broad perspective of what health and

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nutrition is all about

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and i just want to share this with you

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because these are

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the this and the next couple of slides

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is what really just provoked

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my i guess my thinking more than

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anything

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namely if you take animals and you

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expose them to a very

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potent chemical carcinogen in this

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particular case causing liver cancer

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but then subsequently give them either

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one of two levels of protein either the

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good levels or the

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lower levels if you will this early

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cancer

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begins to form over the first 12 weeks

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you know rather well when these animals

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are given

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the so-called recommended good levels of

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protein in contrast the animals given

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the lower levels

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like the indian workers had found did

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not get cancer

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but then we sort of turned our attention

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the next question that was what happens

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during this period

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let's say when you switch protein back

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and forth

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during this early stage and what we

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found of course as you can see here

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you feed animals 20 in the first three

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weeks these cancers are growing rather

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well early cancers i should say these

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are

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pre-neoplastic so to speak lesions that

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we could identify

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and then he associates the five percent

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you turn it off turn it back on turn off

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in other words in doing this in many

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different ways this is just one

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illustration

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uh we could actually turn on and turn

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off this experimental cancer development

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simply by fairly modest nutritional

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means

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just just trading you know the protein

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back and forth

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um but then i got let me just take a

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diversion on the side of it

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i don't want to say you know the protein

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is bad it's not i mean

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protein is an essential nutrient the

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question is how much

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and so we were able to examine that

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question to something that in this

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in this experiment animal system but

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basically

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uh feeding from 4 6 8 10 12 on up to

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twenty percent protein

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to see what the dose response

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relationship was all about

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and what we learned in this particular

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case here was that

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uh up to about ten percent protein which

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is the amount needed for growth

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it's actually in ten percent is an

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excess of what these animals actually

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need

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uh but it's it's a generous and decent

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level

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uh ever put the the cancer didn't grow

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in spite of the fact that these animals

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had been exposed to a chemical

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carcinogen

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was only when in excess these cancers

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really took off

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and if we want to try to you know sort

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of ask ourselves is this equivalent to

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humans in any way

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it turns out the amount of protein we

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humans need compared to animals about

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the same

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there's a there's a slight difference

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but i'm here talking about the shape of

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this curve more than

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the actual identity of the quantity

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in any case it turns out that when these

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animals have fed protein and exodus they

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get this

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the human range of consumption is

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somewhere between about 11 and 22

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percent

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so the extent to which if you make the

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assumption radical assumption press

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but if you make the assumption that we

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as humans

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are more or less requiring the same

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amount of protein and in fact

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we're consuming levels of protein

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amongst all of us 95

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of us in that range where cancer might

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form uh this

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certainly provokes a question as to

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whether or not i think this

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is relevant for humans um

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but that was these were early cancers

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and we then we did

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sort of in cancer research we want to

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know what happens over a lifetime

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because

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cancer takes a long time to form as many

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of you i'm sure know

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so we want to explore whether or not

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this early effect translated

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into a lifetime effect and uh in this

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particular case these animals are given

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to five and 20 percent this is actually

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a portion of a larger study even than

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what i'm showing here

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but in any case the animal is given five

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percent uh over the course of their

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lifetime which is

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uh basically about two years or so

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um this is the level of tumor severity

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take into consideration both

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the incidence in term of weight in

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contrast the animals given twenty

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percent

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is that i mean that's striking

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that is really striking and and in fact

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you know confirms in fact what the

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indian works is i think had

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had basically found what was really

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interesting too though was that these

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animals

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were all living at 100 weeks with no

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tumors

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very energetic sleek haircuts as if in

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fact they were still rather young

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animals

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it was a remarkable difference these

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animals given

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the good levels of protein so to speak

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exposed to the same level of carcinogen

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we're all dead with tumors at 100 weeks

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so again

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i didn't need a statistician to tell me

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whether or not this was

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this is for real uh but this of course

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this is a tiny tiny snapshot of the

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various underways we looked at this

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particular relationship

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but i think this explains fairly well

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what we were what we were doing

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and then it was that i started paying

290
00:09:21,990 --> 00:09:20,000
some attention to what was this kind of

291
00:09:23,430 --> 00:09:22,000
protein we were using

292
00:09:25,269 --> 00:09:23,440
and it turns out the protein we were

293
00:09:27,110 --> 00:09:25,279
using is casein which is the main

294
00:09:29,430 --> 00:09:27,120
protein of cow's milk

295
00:09:30,470 --> 00:09:29,440
it's about 87 percent of total protein

296
00:09:32,949 --> 00:09:30,480
cow's milk

297
00:09:34,230 --> 00:09:32,959
i came from a dairy farm by the way milk

298
00:09:35,990 --> 00:09:34,240
and cows

299
00:09:37,990 --> 00:09:36,000
and i started my graduate work actually

300
00:09:41,269 --> 00:09:38,000
doing my doctor's dissertation

301
00:09:44,389 --> 00:09:41,279
with the idea of promoting the use of

302
00:09:45,430 --> 00:09:44,399
this kind of protein so for me uh it was

303
00:09:46,870 --> 00:09:45,440
a struggle

304
00:09:48,710 --> 00:09:46,880
to sort of sort of get my arms around

305
00:09:50,790 --> 00:09:48,720
that but in any case

306
00:09:52,150 --> 00:09:50,800
soy protein and wheat protein even when

307
00:09:54,870 --> 00:09:52,160
dead at the higher levels

308
00:09:55,190 --> 00:09:54,880
did not do this so here's a simple i

309
00:09:57,350 --> 00:09:55,200
mean

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00:09:58,310 --> 00:09:57,360
it's a limited comparison of course